Codex Alimentarius the real threat to world health

topic posted Thu, April 2, 2009 - 10:44 PM by  Nobuoni +
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement

Codex Alimentarius the real threat to world health

In January 2010' they shall attempt to take all our plants away from us' all herbs' vitamins and minerals are to be listed as prescription only medications'
That means no more online companies selling entheogenic plants' becasue even herbs the likes of garlic and vitamins the likes of Vit C shall be regulated and only available for purchase through government outlets'
This is against the constitutional rights of all peoples of earth'

Read on' standup and be counted' do something about this atrocicity'

More and more people are becoming concerned about the shady, secretive organization that is Codex Alimentarius - the thinly-veiled propaganda arm of the international pharmaceutical industry that does everything it can to promote industry objectives whilst limiting individual options to maintain health (which would diminish members profits).

Codex alimentarius is one of the major bodies behind the effort to limit access to nutritional products and information. Its motivation is not rocket science and neither is the source of its funding - money that somehow expected to return a profit to its members . . . Most of the information available regarding codex alimentarius refers to its role in the USA, but it is not a US-specific body. Far from it, Codex has wiggled its dirty little tentacles into just about every national or international body concerned with public health. Posing as a benefactor, it then uses its significant financial and political clout to do its masters bidding.

As you can read in the excellent article below, there is much to be concerned about when considering codex alimentarius - ignore it at your peril.

Codex Alimentarius - The Sinister Truth Behind Operation Cure-All
(From an original article by Ruth James)

What's really behind Operation Cure-All? Is it just the FDA and FTC taking their power too far? Or is there a deeper, more sinister purpose to this campaign? Who are Codex Alimentarius?

How could a country that prides itself in its freedom of speech, freedom of choice, and freedom of information be facing such severe restrictions in health freedom and dietary supplements? Haven't the people made their will known? Didn't our government pass the Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act of 1994 to insure our right to health supplements?

Indeed, our government did. But the FDA and FTC have found ways to get around that. The laws put in place to protect us are being ignored. And what's worse is that those laws are about to be superseded, if the powers that be have their way.

OPERATION CURE ALL IS JUST ONE MEANS TO AN END
You see, Operation Cure-All is just a tactic, a vehicle, in a much bigger overall plan. It is a result of "Codex Alimentarius" (meaning food code) -- a set of regulations that aim to outlaw any health information in connection with vitamins and limit free access to natural therapies on a worldwide scale.

WHAT'S BEHIND CODEX ALMENTARIUS?
Behind the Codex Alimentarius Commission is the United Nations and the World Health Organization working in conjunction with the multinational pharmaceutical cartel and international banks. Its initial efforts in the US with the FDA were defeated, so it found another ally in the FTC. Now Codex, with the FTC and the pharmaceutical cartel behind it, it threatens to become a trade issue, using the campaign of Operation Cure-All to advance its goals.

Codex began simply enough when the U.N. authorized the World Health Organization and the Food and Agriculture Organization to develop a universal food code. Their purpose was to 'harmonize' regulations for dietary supplements worldwide and set international safety standards for the purposes of increased trade. Pharmaceutical interests stepped in and began exerting their influence. Instead of focusing on food safety, Codex is using its power to promote worldwide restrictions on vitamins and food supplements, severely limiting their availability and dosages.

REAL GOALS OF CODEX
This is to bring about international 'harmonization.' While global harmony sounds benign, is that the real purpose of this plan? While the stated goal of Codex is to establish unilateral regulations for dietary supplements in every country, the actual goal is to outlaw health products and information on vitamins and dietary supplements, except those under their direct control. These regulations would supersede United States domestic laws without the American people's voice or vote in the matter.

HOW CAN IT BE POSSIBLE?
Americans gasp at the thought. It goes against everything America stands for. Many believe this can't be possible. The truth is, it's not only possible, it's required by the Codex Alimentarius agreement.
In fact, under the terms of the Uruguay Round of GATT, which created the World Trade Organization, the United States agreed to harmonize its domestic laws to the international standards. This includes standards for dietary supplements being developed by the United Nation's Codex Alimentarius Commission's Committee on Nutrition and Foods for Special Dietary Use.

The Uruguay Round Agreements carry explicit language clearly indicating that the U.S. must harmonize to international standards:

"Members are fully responsible under this Agreement for the observance of all provisions.... members shall formulate and implement positive measures and mechanisms in support of the observance of the provisions.... by other than central government bodies." [WTO TBT Agreement at Article 3.5]"

In other words, the federal government must NOT ONLY CHANGE FEDERAL LAW, but must ALSO require state and local governments to change their laws as well to be in accordance with international law.

Not only that, but Codex Alimentarius is now enforceable through the World Trade Organization (WTO). If a country disagrees with or refuses to follow Codex standards, the WTO applies pressure by withdrawing trade privileges and imposing crippling trade sanctions. Congress has already bowed to this pressure several times and so have the governments of many countries.

While the exemption clause (USC 3512(a)(1) and (a)(2) was created to supposedly protect our laws from harmonization to international standards, it has proven to be totally ineffective. The United States has already lost seven trade disputes despite the exemption clause. Due to the enormous pressures put on them by lobbyists from multinational corporations (who contribute millions to congressional campaigns), Congress bowed to pressure and changed U.S. laws.

It appears our government (as well as al others) is being manipulated one way or another to serve the goals of the UN, the World Health Organization and the World Trade Organization. Food control equals people control -- and population control. Is this beginning to sound like world government and one-world order? Could this be the real goal behind Codex Alimentarius?

The United States, Canada, the Europeans, Japan, most of Asia, and South America have already signed agreements pledging total harmonization of their laws including food and drug laws to these international standards in the future.

WHAT CODEX WILL BRING
What can we expect under Codex? To give you an idea, here are some important points:

* Dietary supplements could not be sold for preventive (prophylactic) or therapeutic use.
* Potencies would be limited to extremely low dosages. Only the drug companies and the big phytopharmaceutical companies would have the right to produce and sell the higher potency products (at inflated prices).
* Prescriptions would be required for anything above the extremely low doses allowed (such as 35 mg. on niacin).
* Common foods such as garlic and peppermint would be classified as drugs or a third category (neither food nor drugs) that only big pharmaceutical companies could regulate and sell. Any food with any therapeutic effect can be considered a drug, even benign everyday substances like water.
* Codex regulations for dietary supplements would become binding (escape clauses would be eliminated).
* All new dietary supplements would be banned unless they go through Codex testing and approval.
* Genetically altered food would be sold worldwide without labeling.

According to John Hammell, a legislative advocate and the founder of International Advocates for Health Freedom (IAHF), here is what we have to look forward to:

"If Codex Alimentarius has its way, then herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, amino acids and other natural remedies you have taken for granted most of your life will be gone. The name of the game for Codex Alimentarius is to shift all remedies into the prescription category so they can be controlled exclusively by the medical monopoly and its bosses, the major pharmaceutical firms. Predictably, this scenario has been denied by both the Canadian Health Food Association and the Health Protection Branch of Canada (HPB).

The Codex Alimentarius proposals already exist as law in Norway and Germany where the entire health food industry has literally been taken over by the drug companies. In these countries, vitamin C above 200 mg is illegal as is vitamin E above 45 IU, vitamin B1 over 2.4 mg and so on. Shering-Plough, the Norway pharmaceutical giant, now controls an Echinacea tincture, which is being sold there as an over the counter drug at grossly inflated prices. The same is true of ginkgo and many other herbs, and only one government controlled pharmacy has the right to import supplements as medicines which they can sell to health food stores, convenience stores or pharmacies."

It is now a criminal offence in parts of Europe to sell herbs as foods. An agreement called EEC6565 equates selling herbs as foods to selling other illegal drugs. Action is being taken to accelerate other European countries into 'harmonization' as well.

Paul Hellyer in his book, "The Evil Empire," states: "Codex Alimentarius is supported by international banks and multinational corporations including some in Canada, and is in reality a bill of rights for these banks and the corporations they control. It will hand over our sovereign rights concerning who may or may not invest in our countries to an unelected world organization run by big business. The treaty would make it impossible for Canadian legislators either federal or provincial to alter or improve environmental standards for fear of being sued by multinational corporations whether operating in Canada or not.

This will create a world without borders ruled by a virtual dictatorship of the world's most powerful central banks and multinational companies. This world is an absolute certainty if we all sit on our hands and do nothing."

This is the future the FDA and FTC are striving to bring us via Codex harmonization. Is this a future we are going to willingly accept or prevent?

WHY TARGET THE INTERNET?
It is no accident that the FDA and FTC are targeting Internet health sites through Operation Cure-All. We are standing in the doorway of an unprecedented revolution -- the information revolution brought about by the Internet.

Now all people everywhere have the ability to learn about anything that interests them with just a few clicks. History has shown that informed, educated people change civilizations -- they change the flow of thought and they change the flow of money. They can even change the direction of a country. When similar transitions have happened in the past, the powers that existed did not give up willingly. The Catholic Church fiercely protected its practice of selling 'indulgences' as a forgiveness of sin. When the practice was abolished, the Catholic Church lost a great deal of power and money.

When the printing press was invented, books were banned and printers were imprisoned by the authorities, who feared an educated public could not be governed. In the same way, the medical monopoly (and the UN) now fears that a public educated in health and privy to the shortcomings of modern medicine could not be controlled. Loss of control means loss of revenue and loss of power. And they are doing everything they can to stop progress so they can contain their losses and strengthen their power.

The printing press changed the world. Can you imagine what life would be like today if the book banners had their way? But because the printing press won out, society progressed and freedom was embraced. The Internet is changing the world in an equally significant way. While the entire Internet can hardly be suppressed, the pharma-cartels and their backers are looking to protect their interests by restricting as much information as they can on the Internet.

Will we, the people, win out again -- or will the UN and the World Health Organization agenda and the pharmaceutical cartel change the course of history and take us back to the "dark ages" of medicine?

WHAT CAN WE DO?
Step number one is learn as much as possible about this issue. Here are some websites where you will find a great deal of information:

John Hammell's International Advocates for Health Freedom
website: www.iahf.com

"The Health Movement Against Codex Alimentarius" - article from Dr. Rath's website: www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/PHAR...m#top

'U.S. and European Leaders Agree on Principles to Harmonize Dietary Supplement Regulations: 'www.crnusa.org/shellnr112000.html

Federal Register where the FDA states its intention to harmonize with Codex standards: iahf.com/codx-fda.txt

Read, "WHOSE TRADE ORGANIZATION? Corporate Globalization and the Erosion of Democracy" by By Lori Wallach and Michelle Sforza,

Public Citizens Global Trade Watch:
www.tradewatch.org/publicat...obook.htm

Sign the petition - Click on 'Sign Health Freedom Petition:'
www.iahf.com/index2.html

Also sign the European Anti-Codex petition at: www.laleva.cc

Signing petitions is fine, but not nearly as effective as writing to your congressmen and congresswomen. Write to them insisting we hold a PROPER Oversight Hearing on Codex. An oversight hearing was held in March, but the truth was not allowed to come out. Witness who could have exposed what was going on, and who wanted to testify, were denied the opportunity to testify. Congress is strongly resisting another Codex hearing, telling their constituents it is not necessary. This could not be further from the truth.

Contact information for representatives: www.house.gov
Contact information for senators: www.senate.gov

Copyright 2001 Ruth James rjames@therealessentials.com
www.therealessentials.com

CTM Comment: Codex is of course the single most virulent assault on human freedoms in recent times. The desire to control of vitamins, minerals, herbs and other nutritional factors has ironically come about as a result of the inability of orthodox medicine to destroy the practice of the public practicing health without drugs. Now government and the chemical industry will seek to control and profit from that which was available directly to the public in times gone by.

Overturning the Codex by a mass public backlash is CTM’s sworn goal. This can be accomplished only with large numbers of the public all committed to this endeavor. As the above article states, the Internet itself has been able to grant access to information freely to anyone seeking it, and this has destabilized the flow of money and profits to institutions which have traditionally believed their highly lucrative monopolies to be safe.
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • This is disinformation that has been covered many many times on this tribe and others.
    • here we go again.,the bankers run all of this.,they are going for broke now and they are going all out 110% to grab the power over our souls-time to wake up.,or stay in bed.,live free or love slavery.,wheres your head and heart.,search for the bigger truth before you say im wrong.,wake up.,this is for real +
      • here we go again alright. This is 100% total bullshit disinformation.
        • OK Wil' how so dis information'
          A supplier of herbs' a very reputable supplier I might add has looked into this for the past 12months'
          Of wha has been postedis a true account of big pharma'
          It is law in Norway' or is that total 100% bullshit disinformation'

          Codex is doing the same job as GM food producers in the states'

          So you shall be hay to eat GM foods that have been de-labeled so you have no clue of what you are eating'

          Ascorbic acid is going on the prescription only medications list in doses over 250mg'

          There had to be someone who backs big pharma and social control'


          "There will be in the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it through brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods."

          wil' you shout a lot' where is your proof that in Jan 2010 most suppliments are going to be outlawed and only available in decent doses with a prescription ?

          Ez

          Nobuoni +
          • So this is bullshit ?

            It is also very important to be informed about the Codex Alimentarius. The Codex Alimentarius Commission was created in 1963 to develop food standards and guidelines under the Joint FAO/WHO Food Standards Programme. The main purposes of this Programme are protecting health of the consumers and ensuring fair trade practices in the food trade, and promoting coordination of all food standards work undertaken by international governmental and non-governmental organizations. In the early 1990s, Codex began to look at establishing internationally harmonized standards for food supplements. But it appears that the strongest effect of this Directive will be to cut off availability of all vitamins, minerals, enzymes, and most other essential nutrients by re-classifying them as pharmaceutical drugs, eventually available by prescription only and manufactured by pharmaceutical companies from synthetic materials, including genetically engineered substances. People who consider Codex Alimentarius as benevolent consumer protection or as harmless to their health freedom are seriously mistaken. It has nothing to do with consumer protection. It has everything to do with the economic ambitions of multi-national corporations, in particular the pharmaceutical industry.

            "If Codex Alimentarius has its way, then herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, amino acids and other natural remedies you have taken for granted most of your life will be gone. The name of the game for Codex Alimentarius is to shift all remedies into the prescription category so they can be controlled exclusively by the medical monopoly of the major pharmaceutical firms." -John Hammell, founder of International Advocates for Health Freedom.

            The Codex is targeted to go into full global effect by January 1st 2010.

            This is from a reputable supplier of suppliments and herbs' he should know of what he is talking about' it is his bussiness to know of what it is legal and ilegal to purchase' possess and sell'

            You need to give us proof of your statements' I shall search the archives' but your comments are' brash and un-educated !

            Ez

            Nobuoni +
    • "This is disinformation that has been covered many many times on this tribe and others."

      Indeed. Clearly the people who post it again and again aren't even active members of this tribe, just spammers or people who've been conned into becoming spammers for big business. It's rather sad really and a huge diversion from looking after real issues and needs (but that's the point of disinfo and marketing).

      I find it particularly silly that people try to promote vitamins and supplements in a tribe where people are all about growing and eating real food not taking pills with ingredients imported from China sold by people who want to pretend that pills are better than food so they can make lots and lots of money. I find it particularly socially damaging and exploitative that these unethical marketers try to manipulate caring people and redirect their activism into marketing products that are made from ingredients grown and processed in China (not organic OR locally grown). Those who try to plant fear are looking to reap power and profits from that fear, don't feed it! We need to nourish ourselves with real food, real sharing and real activism in our own communities.
      • I'm betting that if we once again refute this silly disinfo and reveal the creepy sources behind it that the OP will once again delete the thread and then try reposting again. They really are relentless in their fear mongering and self promotion! The reality is that "health freedom" actually requires having full information so as to be able to make a choice knowing as many facts as possible. What the people against Codex (which already exists and has for a long time) is having to meet basic safety and ingredients standards for vitamins and supplements so that the ingredients in the bottle are actually the same as listed and unproven health claims can't be made. It's really not that complicated and considering how many vitamins and supplements are actually manufactured in China and then merely packaged in North America - and considering the lead and other toxins in Chinese food products over the past couple of years this is actually a good thing (unless you like toxic or pharmaceutical secret ingredients in your vitamins and supplements).
        • Nabouni isn't an alt or troll with only one agenda. I seems quite sincere about this, and i think he has been misled in this like so many others by the crazy stubblebine propaganda machine. I see they are making great progress in cashing in on that now and are more commercially oriented than they used to be in a lot of sites. What a dr strangelove figure stubblebine is. His thousands of sites use our justified concerns over the outrageous practices of monsanto and other corporations and fear of government control and conflate these with every other fear they can raise and then point to legislation that is of necessity long and complicated and claim all sorts of crazy things about what is in there or the effects it will have.

          Monsanto's practices are dispicable and i don't like the whole gene patenting thing even a little, not to mention the roundup ready crops. Loss of genetic diversity is a real problem. It is a great and timely idea for all of us to learn the ancient art of seed saving!

          But all of this has nothing whatsoever to do with the codex or with the food safety bill either one. Both of these are good faith efforts to help people, not enslave humanity. Stubblebine sees world populatiion control plots everywhere he looks, he is big on alex jones etc. I think he is just plain crazy. At any rate, his arguments do not hold up to say the least. There is nothing there but smoke mirrors and skillfully employed emotional hooks ( he is very big into psy ops and brain control)

          What a trip.
          • He IS very Dr Strangelove or Dr Evil wil! He's a truly bizarre figure and the source of a lot of disinfo. I just find it frustrating to continually see well meaning people's energy for activism diverted to advertising for someone who thinks about the best way to torture people and how to make weapons that hurt people but not property.
  • Predicted (by implication) in the original post in this thread (quoting):

    * Dietary supplements could not be sold for preventive (prophylactic) or therapeutic use.
    * Potencies would be limited to extremely low dosages. Only the drug companies and the big phytopharmaceutical companies would have the right to produce and sell the higher potency products (at inflated prices).
    * Prescriptions would be required for anything above the extremely low doses allowed (such as 35 mg. on niacin).
    * Common foods such as garlic and peppermint would be classified as drugs or a third category (neither food nor drugs) that only big pharmaceutical companies could regulate and sell. Any food with any therapeutic effect can be considered a drug, even benign everyday substances like water.
    * Codex regulations for dietary supplements would become binding (escape clauses would be eliminated).
    * All new dietary supplements would be banned unless they go through Codex testing and approval.
    * Genetically altered food would be sold worldwide without labeling.

    I don't say that it is not good to be vigilant about freedoms. But some of this regulation that you (or the commentators/sources behind this original post) foresee is impractical for any government to actually carry out. As an example, consider this point, just quoted above: "Common foods such as garlic and peppermint would be classified as drugs or a third category (neither food nor drugs) that only big pharmaceutical companies could regulate and sell"

    Okay, there are probably AT LEAST several million Americans and several hundreds of thousands of Canadians growing garlic in their homestead garden, their community garden, or in some tiny patch in their residential back yard. (And, for all I know, in North America it could easily be 10-million people or more growing garlic.) Garlic does not require the annual purchase of seeds. Each bulb provides you with 6-12 cloves that can be planted, rather than eaten. You simply save some bulbs and plant cloves in the fall. And mints (peppermint included) grow like weeds. Again, peppermint is already established in countless gardens and yards. Do you really believe this can be stamped out?

    If these are the best and scariest examples that you can select to make your point, then the whole scenario or argument becomes ridiculous and incredible.

    There is a broader and less paranoid message possible: Americans and Canadians (and other people in the industrial and industrializing world) should get involved with their food supply. Grow your own, or support your local and regional farmers. And so on.
    • "If Codex Alimentarius has its way, then herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, amino acids and other natural remedies you have taken for granted most of your life will be gone. The name of the game for Codex Alimentarius is to shift all remedies into the prescription category so they can be controlled exclusively by the medical monopoly of the major pharmaceutical firms." -John Hammell, founder of International Advocates for Health Freedom."

      Well, the antidote to the trend you're talking about is self-responsibility, neighborhood responsibility, and community self-responsibility. People need to quit bitching so much and get involved. Be active. Don't just worry, DO!

      Learn skills. Obtain practical, productive kowledge. Get in touch with people who get off their butts. Network, cooperate. Grow food. Grow medicinal herbs. Support local organic farmers. Form organic-food certification groups. Critique your local organic-food distribution and marketing system - in order to make it better and stronger.

      Writing letters and participating in Web discussions are fine. Do them in your spare time. Put your back into it.
      • Amen to this--Well, the antidote to the trend you're talking about is self-responsibility, neighborhood responsibility, and community self-responsibility. People need to quit bitching so much and get involved. Be active. Don't just worry, DO!

        Learn skills. Obtain practical, productive kowledge. Get in touch with people who get off their butts. Network, cooperate. Grow food. Grow medicinal herbs. Support local organic farmers. Form organic-food certification groups. Critique your local organic-food distribution and marketing system - in order to make it better and stronger+++ wise indeed ++
        • and i beleive we have government stooges running around saying this is all bunk-go back to sleep..,this is just a conspiracy theory created by our fearfull lttle reptilian minds.,nothing to worry about-trust your government-ha-ha-ha+ sure way to lose it all ++
          • pickerrick - Have you looked into General Stubblebine? I have no idea if he's just a greedy and unethical person running a con, completely nuts and on a mission, or trying to destroy grassroots activism by laying down astroturf - whatever his motivation, he's someone who was in the military and very involved in mind control, torture and some very strange and rather horrifying stuff. Promoting his agenda certainly does nothing for grass roots activism except divert people's energy and focus. More than anything else, I get sick of anti-food propaganda - particularly anti-food propaganda in a grow organics tribe! Eating fear is a recipe for indigestion but it's a good way for marketers to get people taking expensive pills instead of eating nutritious, home grown organic food. Ironically, stress and fear - and the physiology of fear - will actually interfere with your ability to digest food and consequently absorb nutrients. A diet of fear and stress is bad for your health (mental, physical and emotional). Eat good food, not too much. Relax, eat slowly and savor what you eat. Relax so you can digest what you eat. Fear is corrosive to good health, don't let it consume you. The greatest act of resistance to the fear and war mongering is to remain relaxed, happy and centred where you stand. Plant the seeds of happiness in your own life and be surprised what grows! :-)
            • fifi-for real.,thats a very compasionate statement.,and your probably right about everything.,especially living in fear.,takes away common sense..,life is a circle and we allways get what we give..,thank you for reminding me--its allways been easier to shoot first,ask questions later..,bad habit + and i grow organics.,its my life and government control over my garden hits me where it hurts--steady as we grow and spread your seeds ++
              • pickerrick - I can see how you'd feel threatened and as if your garden was going to be taken away, that's exactly how General Stubblebine and those like him want you to feel - afraid, very afraid. That way it's easier to manipulate people because it's easy to get them to REACT emotionally and immediately rather than ACT in a considered way that's based in reality and their true best interests. Now, I have no great love of the American government and all kinds of lobby groups do influence legislation, it's just that the people who've been making the most fuss over Codex are vitamin and supplement manufacturers who are themselves a very, very powerful commercial/corporate lobby group (no different than Big Pharma, Big Food or Monstanto). Billions of dollars are made from selling supplements and vitamins, which often don't contain what they say they do. One of the tactics used to sell these pills and powders to people is to claim that food - even organic food - isn't nutritious enough so you have to get your nutrition in a pill form (hardly living naturally and totally ignoring the fact that food contains all kinds of very healthy things supplements don't!) These people actually hate food (or at least want people to believe that food simply isn't good enough, including organic food - it really is very, very silly once one gets past the smoke and mirrors created by all the fear mongering!)

                Over the years I've found that genuine activists really, really want others to understand what's going on so they can see for themselves and make a conscious choice based on their personal ethical understanding. Agents of disinfo - or simply people who are interested in manipulating those around them - resort to using trigger emotions like fear (fear is always used to justify and incite ANY kind of war - be it a commercial one or an international one).
                • aye-fear works.,and stubblebine is trouble..,they have allready outlawed my medicine-sacrement.,and i have lived with fear beside me for 30 years.,there is a war on for your mind and its been here for a very long time.,people dont want to know besides the crap their tvs feed them--sad.,very sad- so im fighting for my right to garden.,with my peace of mind.,whats left of it..,thanks to all the gardners who love freedom too.,bless all +
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    It never hurts to be informed !

                    GM producers in the states took farmers to court over seeds'
                    GM won also'
                    So it pays to know of what is happening'

                    I am no troll or alt'
                    I was given this info by a friend in Holland' who at this time is having to hold on bussiness and assess everything that he sells'

                    The thing that gets me is this all turns out as a war on people'
                    The same as the weed law'

                    I wish to be able to grow my own seeds and order of whatever I require without having to be penalised for staying as close to nature as is humanly possible'

                    Blissings

                    Nobuoni +
                    • xactly.,this is the same war--when they declared war on drugs--it was double talk-think..,it is a war on the people..,thats why so many people are incarcerated here..,and made the gangsters-mafia-cia-filthy rich and powerfull..,the banksters are running the whole show..,power-plain and simple.,and we have been taught to accept this boot on our necks as normal--george orwell wrote this script..,queens giving out copies so people can learn the rules..,we are a heartbeat away from a New World Order---so cut the crap and get rid of the smoke and mirrors and find out what is going on..,
                    • there is a war on the people in the US..,people have to be blind-deaf-and dammed dum not to see it..,but they fire up their microwaves and turn on their wet nurse- TV -- and we have a nation of cripples --freedoms just another word--hang on to whats left-+
                      • This war is world wide'
                        It is leading to a one world government'
                        Conspiracies is a way of controling the people'
                        Iknow this has no thing to do with growing organic food' but why has America been building concentration type camps'
                        otis this jusr more dis-information' FIMA camps'
                        Whay kind of cotastrophy do you think they are planning for'

                        digg.com/d1V3xs

                        What do you really think these camps are for ?

                        I am guessing this is all leading to "Manufactured Concent" on a massive scale' cleanse the populace of unwanted genetics' then re-breed the work force into a herd mentality'

                        If the governments of the world control food' then they got base control of everyone'

                        If you say this is fear mongering' then I say you got to be blind'
                        These subtle little picks at our personal freedoms' eventualy all adds up'

                        My proof in of what has been said has been given me by a friend in Holland'
                        For this time' he has been shut down'
                        He sells herbs' from food for the mind' to food for the body' and general health'

                        Ok so this bill is supposed to be voluntary'
                        Made compulsory by the individual governments'

                        I am now feeling' cry bullshit at me' then you got to be the "Enemy" attempting to control me from a distance'

                        When or how long does it take for "voluntary" to become' compulsory'

                        Did the farmers tht got nickefor growing supposedly GM foods' steal these seeds from GM producers'
                        You can bet your ass they did no such thing'
                        Bankers' bussineses' big pharma' playing monopoly with peoples freedoms' for the sake of staying rich'

                        I am glad I have tons of seed an a littlebit of land to grow on'

                        To look of how deep this goes from another dirrection'

                        Houses and estates' councils and housing associations'
                        They built all of the houses with no concern for of where the daily sun lies in the gardens' that is if the house has a garden'
                        Where do you think they think these people who live in these houses are gong to get there food from' cos they sure s hell can grow non in their gardens'
                        It would be a simple task to build houses with south facing gardens' so the occupants can grow their own food'
                        So obviously this runs way deeper than someone just shouting bullshit at my concerns'
                        I would like my children to be a ble to feed themselves without having to be a slave to someone who is going to pay them money to buy GM foods from a supermarket'
                        I could go on and on'
                        Where I live' you grow your own food in your garden' folks look at you like you are a low life' becasue they buy their food from a supermarket'

                        Do people even realise that the food in the shops is plants' with everything packaged and full of crap'
                        Food they could grow themselves' if they had gardens to grow in'

                        How come you got to be an old foggy' to grow food in your own garden'
                        Oh' that is an old persons thing to do' syndrome'

                        2 pills and 25ml of water for dinner ! !

                        Ez

                        Nobuoni +

                        So shout at me' call it bullshit' I say you got yout head in the sand and must be praying it no happen'

                        Rain-check'

                        It already is !
                        • Interesting exchange.

                          As interesting as last time.

                          And filled with almost as many examples of ad hominem assertions as the last go-round.

                          I am still un-sure of the validity of any claims I've heard on either side of this argument. Is it a good thing? It has no teeth, per se, and I find the Codex suggestions, while generally not out-to-lunch, about as solid as a food pyramid. Is it a bad thing? I see no attempt to outlaw food or gardens or vitamins & the like, and see no specific connection to big biz utilizing that concern as a scare tactic (especially in light of the fact that it has no teeth).

                          Can it be given teeth by a specific country's law-making body? Of course. And legislators make stupid laws all the time, with or without the Codex. Am I uncomfy with the fact that it is recognized by the WTO & other international orgs whose policies, practices, and existence I personally find questionable...and that it is used to settle specific disputes between countries? Yes. Especially because the (often arbitrary or dated) standards adopted by "World" organizations are often used in the stead of current data or with disregard for opposing viewpoints.

                          Brass tacks: Is this thread just another example of some troll spamming boards, or an example of some well-intentioned but ignorant person spreading fear? Absolutely not. It is vital that information that individuals have be put on the table so that it can be sifted through by everyone. That is the point of sharing information. I like seeing this sort of thing because the ruthless attack that the info falls under helps separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. That is, of course, easier to do if personal attacks are kept where they belong (i.e. - out of the conversation) and the involved parties actually attempt to learn something, which most folks here seem to be interested in. So smile!

                          Now - if it would just warm back up so I can till the rest of my garden......
                          • David - It's good to discuss things, I agree (even if we don't always agree with each other, I respect your right to see and think differently than I do and am interested in your perspective). It's just a bit frustrating running into the same disinfo over and over again posted in this tribe. Why? Because it means the people posting it aren't members of the tribe here primarily to discuss growing organic, sustainability, communal and urban gardening and decommercializing food (but rather to denigrate even organic food by promoting "super foods for super people" and intentionally spread fear as a means to manipulate people into buying their product).

                            Why healthfreedomusa and General Stubblebine - who many within alternative medicine communities question - have such a vested interest in spreading disinfo is anyone's guess. I just find it curious that they've managed to gain such power and influence and have so many people spreading their message (when even many involved in the alternative community see them as agents of disinfo). The world is a weird and wacky place! And there are people who will do and say anything for money and power. I also find the connection between Stubblebine's CIA and business connections (such as his partner at PsiTech) and Scientology very disturbing considering the history and methodology of Scientology. What can I say? I find it odd (and more than a little ironic and darkly humorous) that people who are worried about conspiracies would get involved in promoting messages that come from someone like Stubblebine who is so clearly connected to the American military (and the sketchy secret side on top of it!) and Scientology.

                            The Scientology connection...
                            www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/veri...a.htm

                            educate-yourself.org/lte/act...08.shtml
                            • Ok' for the record so we can get past this slant'

                              At this time' in Holland and other EU countries' govenments are pushing for regulation on "supplements"
                              To be implemented on the 1st of Jan 2010'
                              They are still argueing over the internal details of EU regulations'

                              Fifi' your arguements are ungrounded' saying I have no interest in growing organic foods'
                              I work as a healer in Europe' grow as much of my own food as is conceviably possible' order my plants for treatments from a supplier in Europe' that at this time is having to re-asses everything that he buys and sells'
                              This is fact'
                              So perhaps I came at this post from the wrong angle'

                              So to start again'

                              I grow amongst other things' "Organic"
                              Organic mushrooms'
                              I have already been prevented from growing certain "Organic mushrooms" since 2006'
                              I had no say in this regulation' but still have to abide by it !
                              An if I wish to grow' "Organic mushrooms" I have to break the so called law'

                              In Holland at this time and to be implemented in Jan 2010' EU regulations on "supplements" details still being argued over'
                              This just spouts to me of an attempt to control even more of the plants we love and require for to be healthy'
                              Mind body and spirit!

                              Seeing as most of you live in the states'
                              This post has no thing to do with you' at this time'
                              This is being used as a strangle hold on countries' as a form of control as trade embargoes'
                              You no conform to EU regulations' you get slapped with blocks on trade with other countries'

                              So I shall keep you updated on current developments in Europe'

                              This is no "scare mongering as you seem to think I am doing'

                              It is an honest attempt at trying to show of what is actualy happening in my and other close nabouring countries in europe'

                              So for Holland and the rest of Europe' this is happening now!

                              Blessings

                              Nobuoni +

Recent topics in "Grow Organic!"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
Canadians - open-pollinated seeds sources? Tanemon 9 Today, 12:00 PM
homemade bone meal? yadda yadda 4 December 6, 2009
Cooking with Whole Foods Trish 3 December 4, 2009
Strawberries Mystic Rose 2 November 26, 2009