Tribe.net. Local Connections W. O. http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#2a171594-f05e-493f-9684-d38f359a4f2d 2008-05-09T11:45:58Z 2008-05-09T11:45:58Z

I guess that the Dr. I saw interviewed on the tele. must have been wrong ! He was a surgeon who operated on AIDS patients and when asked about the life of AIDS outside the body replied " In a wet state 3 to 4 days and in a dry state 2 to 3 hours " . What are you taught now ?

W. O. 2008-05-09T11:45:58Z Laurmaste http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#ea26ae49-2e13-4c35-9f04-f1f939a7dd09 2008-05-09T10:12:35Z 2008-05-09T10:12:35Z

I am glad that you did. This is all new information to me as I am newer to Tribe and would have missed it... I don't really go back through old topics because it's time consuming. Thank you for the resurrection, it has made me think quite a bit. :)

Laurmaste 2008-05-09T10:12:35Z Angie http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#680adea0-e283-476d-b4b0-02e02522c5e4 2008-04-25T02:17:53Z 2008-04-25T02:17:53Z

Just bringing this topic alive again! :) I use my blood on my garden, it is wonderful stuff.

Angie 2008-04-25T02:17:53Z SoapTree http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#bd47e6c8-ea9d-4916-88d7-4413fa651f44 2007-04-01T18:57:06Z 2007-04-01T18:57:06Z

I just joined this tribe and must say this a wonderful conversation. For the last 5 years I have been using sea sponge for my blood. And it is fantastic. I use my own blood in ritual ( letting go, cleansing) but honestly never got around using it in the garden. I have a friend who urinates on his roses and they are the best roses around :-) This spring I will start to use the blood in the herb garden. Thanks for the reminder.

SoapTree 2007-04-01T18:57:06Z Alchemy Elixir http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#e3ca15a4-1a1d-4bb3-b4b6-5fe51cf91e9d 2007-04-01T07:15:48Z 2007-04-01T07:15:48Z

Yay for this great thing. I put my used organic cotton tampons in the compost. :)

Alchemy Elixir 2007-04-01T07:15:48Z Albe http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#76efe4b9-c263-4b42-b146-74bfed623ac7 2007-03-31T10:26:48Z 2007-03-31T10:26:48Z

Here's a personal story and some scientific data on the use of urine as a plant fertilizer. Several pictures are also there to document the results. http://www.solviva.com/seeking_the_path.htm It is a free chapter of the book "Solviva." Several other free chapters are also accessible from that website.

Albe 2007-03-31T10:26:48Z Rahim http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#ec0cc5d1-2ba9-478a-b7cb-31911f1f9be8 2007-03-31T07:18:48Z 2007-03-31T07:18:48Z

Did everyone notice that there was a 2-1/2 year gap in the thread? And the people who have posted recently are a totally different crowd. Kinda like a living book, eh? It seems there's a tension here between two basic issues: 1) hygiene, and 2) the appeal of completing/fulfilling an energetic cycle. Some people are clearly drawn to the idea of "plugging into" the waste/compost/regeneration cycle by using urine and menstrual blood as fertilizers. Others find this distasteful, just downright icky :-) I can imagine a time when our toilets will link up conveniently with the compost pile (perhaps a kind of rolling, underground septic system). The chemicals contained in human waste products are not insignificant. My guess is that there's not really enough nutrients there to completely fertilize a full-scale vegetable garden, but it's not a trivial amount of chemicals. Perhaps the combination of fruit and vegetable scraps, human wastes, and yard wastes together would be enough to make a self-sufficient garden? As someone who has spent a couple hundred bucks on soil and organic fertilizers over the past year, this is an eminently practical question for me. It is worth considering that industrial-scale sewage treatment causes some environmental problems, pollution, etc. I recall reading specifically that the practice of combining urine and feces in the waste treatment process causes chemical reactions which are unhelpful. Sorry I have no source to cite for this. Of course, no one wants something smelly or unhygienic in their house or backyard! But there are good practical, environmental reasons for striving to come up with a better system than what we're doing know in the industrialized Western countries. Namaste.

Rahim 2007-03-31T07:18:48Z Albe http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#16eb5b6b-6b8f-46ca-8e99-3c0c6256470e 2007-03-30T15:07:05Z 2007-03-30T15:07:05Z

"can you use menstrual blood as fertilizer? how is it applied (directly or diluted?) and how often should it be given to plants? i've read that plants love it, but is there any sort of evidence backing this up? ' -Jandari I suggest you do an experiment to find out what the limits are for menstral nurishment of plants .... Take a fully loaded pad, and then sprinkle grass seds on it. Keep it damp and see if it starts growing grass "hair" ... you know, like the Chia pet ... http://z.about.com/d/inventors/1/0/U/9/ramchia.jpg If that works, then you could test a new idea of embedding grasss seeds in a fresh, new pad, and then wearing it. If you eventually feel new grass sprouts tickling you, then you know it is a success! ... and you can patent that invention as the Chia Pad. Certain to be a big seller! Be sure to take pics to document your experiment. and feel free to post them here. hehe

Albe 2007-03-30T15:07:05Z Dustin (El Guano) http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#9eaedd8a-1e6e-4df4-9cea-e0414de26d31 2007-03-30T07:26:06Z 2007-03-30T07:26:06Z

Im planning to use Goat entrails to water my roses

Dustin (El Guano) 2007-03-30T07:26:06Z emily http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#bacb0b19-2d46-406d-b761-4eb68c9f30db 2007-03-30T06:44:04Z 2007-03-30T06:43:25Z

great thread. the whole 'thinking of the earth first' part is a bit of a quagmire though, no? because where do you think your 'waste' goes when you flush it down the toilet? lots of ways to think of the earth i guess: a garbage heap, your home, wasteland, your mother, etc. seems to me a more holistic way of thinking of the earth might be to think of myself as part of it and it as part of me and try to find as many practices and technologies to reinforce that holistic intrinsic relationship. reinstate the inevitable cycle with a healthy respect for all of the parts and functions of the whole, including all the nectars secreted... (yes piss and blood too) the beauty is we have the technology and intelligence to remember old or create new processes that nourish and renourish earth and us, the ugly is that we are so fearful even of ourselves! the Humanure Handbook by JC Jenkins covers mostly composting human feces and how to transform pathogens and build incredibly rich fertilizer to nourish the earth (as opposed to flushing 'waste' 'away' and fertilizing with intense chemical treatments), and it seems to me if you worry that blood will carry evils, that composting it would be an excellent way to reap the rubies and transform the... uh,. whatever it is you're afraid of. also, i think composting your blood and poop is just another fine reason to consider what you put in and on your body.

emily 2007-03-30T06:43:25Z Julie http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#adf654b9-b9e6-406c-a5c2-d7e873c14388 2007-03-26T14:19:54Z 2007-03-26T14:19:54Z

Well, it does get quite a smell to it after a few day. That is why is put my pads in a gallon jar with a lid. Before people thought that women did harm to things because of their great power, women were honored for this focused power they called in during menstration. thanks for this topic....it feels good to me to speak about the old ways and women's lore. peace, Julie

Julie 2007-03-26T14:19:54Z conrad http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#aed49a75-7f8f-495a-99a7-7212d90feccc 2007-03-26T04:22:35Z 2007-03-26T04:22:35Z

today I read that the ancient Greeks used to mix menstrual blood with their seeds before planting I also read that it needs to be used fresh, because if it sits around for more than a day it stinks bad and that women on birth control pills secrete the hormones from the pills into their menstrual blood also I read that Maoris don't let menstruating women harvest or store the kumera (sweet potatoes) as they will rot and in India when they let menstruating women harvest the ginger it all rotted something about strong etheric forces

conrad 2007-03-26T04:22:35Z Julie http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#d1dc6f45-0fe5-4039-8199-32cbae7fba82 2007-03-26T00:17:40Z 2007-03-26T00:17:40Z

Hello Jandari, I recommend reading Susun Weed's book Healing Wise. She writes of the old ways and the blood mysteries. All of this talk about blood and it being unhygenic is ingrained in many of our psyches because of thousands of years of oppression of women. In the old days, mentrual blood was used to fertilize the crops, and used in sacred ritual. I am now post menopausal. When I did bleed, I would soak my pads in a glass gallon jar and then water my plants with this water. They were all very happy. Moontime blessing, Julie

Julie 2007-03-26T00:17:40Z conrad http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#f2d98305-603a-4ed9-b42b-acdd7fb5048d 2007-03-25T19:22:18Z 2007-03-25T19:22:18Z

exactly slaughterhouse blood is just bad...what I was trying to illustrate is that it is an accepted practice, to use blood as a fertilizer, not that it is necessarily a good thing to use slaughterhouse blood now about menstrual blood correct me if I am wrong but is it not part of a cleansing process? I have heard that women who do lots of fasting and cleansing have a tendency to have a reduced menstrual flow and in some cases no flow...what does that say? would you consider using it to fertilize your own food? personally I would not, just a personal preference feeding flowers and trees definitely

conrad 2007-03-25T19:22:18Z Rae http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#a28a9e2a-7cd5-4f9f-87d6-68c9d96546d3 2007-03-20T17:05:24Z 2007-03-20T17:05:24Z

I use the keeper too...save all of that precious menstral blood to be diluted with water and fed to my plants. They love it. How sad that we have been fooled into believing that this pure life giving source is to be discarded. Menstral blood is rich in nutrition, and contains much more life giving substance than the blood you give at your local red cross. 12 March 2006 At the American College of Cardiology annual meeting, Abstracts 921-105 and 921-107 by researchers at the Keio University School of Medicine in Japan examined the use of endometrial cells to mimic heart muscle. The two studies derived endometrial cells from either umbilical cord blood or from menstrual blood. In both cases, some of the endometrial cells were able to contract simultaneously (roughly half the cells from menstrual blood and nearly all the cells from cord blood). Both sets of cells also exhibited cardiac gene expression and response to the chemicals which trigger cardiac contractions. The cord blood study went further, demonstrating that half the stem cells transformed into cardiomyocytes (primitive cardiac cells) in vitro. http://www.acc.org/2006ann_meeting/press/StemCellTherapySun12PM.pdf

Rae 2007-03-20T17:05:24Z Lyrl http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#9d0c9b4c-9f8c-4ed7-aec5-ad15873620a1 2007-03-18T18:19:22Z 2007-03-18T18:19:22Z

I've been using menses water on my houseplants and in my compost pile for some time now. Currently, I'm growing tomato seedlings and want to use this as part of their fertilizer. I would imagine seedlings are much more sensitive to concentration than houseplants are, though, and I'm not sure how much to use. Looks like no one else is, either, just that the concentrations that come out of soaking a single pad in a bucketful of water seem to be OK for established plants. Hm. Well, the liquid seaweed I'm using recommends diluting at 1 Tbs per 1 gallon water. So maybe I'll use that as a guideline and estimate about 1/2 Tbs per gallon (I use a menstrual cup and so have a little bit of undiluted stuff).

Lyrl 2007-03-18T18:19:22Z Dirtgirl http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#adc49dbc-6d03-4c7b-bac8-fcc9a217b994 2007-03-13T22:00:51Z 2007-03-13T22:00:51Z

Great thread! I know a woman who has been fertlizing with her blood for years on houseplants. I am a user of the keeper which at least reduces the amount of waste I put into the system due to my period, but I haven't tried fertilizing yet. Definitely fascinating!

Dirtgirl 2007-03-13T22:00:51Z janeO http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#d39d532d-f337-4cc2-82b3-c427808f3d9e 2007-03-13T12:51:48Z 2007-03-13T12:51:48Z

What could be worse than slaughterhouse blood from a spiritual perspective. Thanks for the info on bloodmeal which I haven't used. Menstrual blood is the physical matter that makes it possible for the most creative thing a human can do. It represents creative potential. Imagine the fear bound up in bloodmeal.

janeO 2007-03-13T12:51:48Z Dustin (El Guano) http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#56ced37c-d7af-4f48-a5b1-0a64b3c3dc69 2007-03-13T12:36:30Z 2007-03-13T12:36:30Z

I must admit that this is one of the more entertaining threads I have seen in a long time

Dustin (El Guano) 2007-03-13T12:36:30Z conrad http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#9ab76cc3-87f6-441e-88ba-6bdbd2ddc7a2 2007-03-13T07:26:00Z 2007-03-13T07:26:00Z

e coli comes from our bowels cows bowels etc, menstrual blood is from the kidney/liver system there should be no e coli to worry about blood meal (slaughterhouse waste) is used widely in organic agriculture, it is a big nitrogen source, also iron and other nutrients so yes it is nutrifying I am curious though menstrual blood is a cleansing mechanism of the body right, maybe there are 'dirty' astral energies that are also carried away from the body with the blood, that would be best fed to something like flowers (which are good for cleaning these types of energy patterns)...instead of feeding it to the food plants

conrad 2007-03-13T07:26:00Z yadda yadda http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#0b5288cc-a2ee-4d30-bec1-dc969290b975 2007-03-12T20:13:54Z 2007-03-12T20:13:54Z

What an interesting discussion. We live in a society that can't handle bodily excretions and its so hard to get away from that aversion. I know that urine is sterile, and can be used to neutralize the venom of jellyfish. In the Phillippines, my buddy had his friends take a whizz on his foot after being stung by a Man O' War. They say it saved his life. I'm not sure if I'm ready to recycle my menstrual blood. But I do find the concept intriguing. Please let us know how it works. Oh, and on the subject of e coli and other bacteria. We fertilize early to mid season, not just before harvest. I think all of the e coli outbreaks associated with leafy veggies came from irrigation water contaminated by the cattle ranch next door.

yadda yadda 2007-03-12T20:13:54Z Jamilla http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#f6c8e741-ca90-4eec-ac39-214c6e9497bf 2007-03-12T18:58:06Z 2007-03-12T18:58:06Z

I would be concerned about E Coli, "Infection with E. coli often leads to bloody diarrhea, and occasionally to kidney failure. People can become infected with E.coli O157:H7 in a variety of ways. Though most illness has been associated with eating undercooked, contaminated ground beef, people have also become ill from eating contaminated bean sprouts or fresh leafy vegetables such as lettuce and spinach. Person-to-person contact in families and child care centers is also a known mode of transmission. In addition, infection can occur after drinking raw milk and after swimming in or drinking sewage-contaminated water."

Jamilla 2007-03-12T18:58:06Z Lynn http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#10e000f7-7464-4fdf-8e29-b54752a87863 2007-03-12T13:48:57Z 2007-03-12T13:48:57Z

I think that these rituals could have been used a lot more in historic times when their eating and lifestyles were purer. "You are what you eat" had been mentioned here a lot, but perhaps not as simply as: if you eat non-organic food (to your knowledge anyway), take any medications, or drugs, or anything that contains anything unnatural (hard not to at least one of these), I'd leave it out of the earth. Thinking of the earth first. I've heard of the menses on plants thing, too. Sounds wonderfully womanly spiritualistic, and I've wanted to try it. I, aslso think in houseplants it's okay. Do whatever you want to plants that aren't in the earth in my opinion. Hadn't heard of urine.... I suppose it's the same. It is hard to rid oneself of any preconceived notions - so obviously if we aren't completely comfortable with it we do it. I hope you let us know how it goes for you! I've been wanting to use my menses for my houseplants - if you use tampons how do you save the blood? I guess I could just be inactive the first day and save it another way... Peace, Lynn

Lynn 2007-03-12T13:48:57Z hrana http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#2ba31935-7303-4283-a9d5-b5d1aa2df04a 2007-03-11T21:05:50Z 2007-03-11T21:05:35Z

I too have used it on my houseplants (& trees) for decades now..no problem, happy plants.

hrana 2007-03-11T21:05:35Z janeO http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#a87c470a-0341-4fac-8036-03acece99436 2007-03-11T01:22:04Z 2007-03-11T01:22:04Z

It would be transformed by the process. How sis it go? did you do a test ? I have heard it is like magic for plants.

janeO 2007-03-11T01:22:04Z Bonita http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#d326f04f-6e41-4367-acb2-1c92daef1269 2007-03-10T21:43:17Z 2007-03-10T21:43:17Z

http://tribes.tribe.net/moongodsmedicine

Bonita 2007-03-10T21:43:17Z dræyk http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#08ab80ad-0952-47c2-ad5b-19e87f958453 2004-10-17T12:41:39Z 2004-10-17T12:41:39Z

hormones get into the water system through various means... not least our own sewage/waste desposal systems. though i take your point.

dræyk 2004-10-17T12:41:39Z $item.owner.firstName http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#346c5b6e-ac23-4639-919b-148450fd101f 2004-10-15T16:37:27Z 2004-10-15T16:37:27Z

Don't use your human waste (blood, urine, excrement) in your compost. Hormones in Human Waste may be leading factor in reproductive eggs found in the sex organs of male bass: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6253193/

$item.owner.firstName 2004-10-15T16:37:27Z dræyk http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#ffcc538f-88d8-43b0-b7f6-b3b8f9a2c37f 2004-10-04T11:50:43Z 2004-10-04T11:50:43Z

i understand what your saying but i cant agree with you. what i will agree on is responsibility but were not talking about throwing blood all over the place. i feel like you're implying that. i agree you should treat blood with care. however its important not to turn it into some personal monster. lets not forget our fear of bacteria has led to over use of anti-biotics, the development of super bugs and bodies that cant even cope with a basic infection that years ago wouldn't have been an issue. i think its important to be in touch with yourself and that's about recognition and respect but not irrational fear. modernity creates more problems than it solves. "mad cows" as you put it isn't about cows eating themselves its about a skrewed up meat/farm industry that commodifies life. i lived through that disaster in the UK and its seriously misunderstood problem. animals, as you put it "get rid of their afterbirth", funny i thought they ate it... but did anyone say anything about using afterbirth on plants anyway? women and for that matter men have used bodily fluids in ritual and practice for Milena. the reasons are many and varied. and sorry, I'm really not trying to dig at you but "what's good for doctors and health care workers is good for all of us." is in my opinion very far from the truth. they are divided on this issue as on most things. i know no doctors who Ive spoken to decry the idea of using blood, again its about using it appropriately and respectfully. id also add that doctors and so on are not gods, though many think they are and are fallible. anyone who has been seriously ill can tell you that. finally id say its really just about using common sense. lol

dræyk 2004-10-04T11:50:43Z freckly http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#911142a7-0f34-4f3d-83ef-7848ca435bb6 2004-09-30T05:36:52Z 2004-09-30T05:36:52Z

i can't believe this thread is still haunting the tribe. we use poop, but not cat or dog poop, even if our pets are healthy. its organic.. but we don't use it. "you are what you eat" is somewhat true, but if you feed cows cows, you get mad cows. logic is tricky sometimes. can you see the principle? at all? sometimes a thing seems "right," but it ain't right.... it just ain't right. what is so hard to understand about this? I think people go too far the other way... this is my opinion. it's the same principle as reverse discrimination. it's like.. overcompensating for something --which doesn't help and isn't dealing with reality but imposing something unnatural and bordering on the perverse. animals get rid of afterbirth and blood ASAP, for example. if they dont, they die. i don't think they are ashamed of their femininity or their offspring. i think it's instinctual and linked to survival. if you save bloody rags and make solutions of bloody water to put on your plants in grizzly country you just might die a horrible death. pioneer women and Native Americans knew this very well. i think it's over the top to go to so much trouble to put human blood and human body fluids on plants, and it's probably a side effect of misogynistic practices in society---it sure seems reactionary. i find no reason to do it that satifies me. i believe it is not a healthy... ahem...practice for humans. i ain't even considering the plants here. no health organizations handle blood or body fluids, healthy or not, and they even hire companies to deal with bodily waste to avoid spreading disease. there are laws to protect the environment and people from such things! even the dang dentist wears gloves, and i don't take it personally. it has nothing to do with my being a woman. it's just a way of the dentist avoiding a health risk. the swabs from healthy women's pap smears go in the medical waste bin after testing. they are disposed of according to safe practices by women who love women. what's good for doctors and health care workers is good for all of us. :) i dont see them saving bloody rags to make fertilizer. and i sure as heck don't think they would recommend it to their neighbors. if they did, i would never visit them.. or their neightbors. peace and love with rubber gloves... please.. be responsible.

freckly 2004-09-30T05:36:52Z dræyk http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#8fdaeb91-06f0-4cf6-a23b-aafb2290a6af 2004-09-29T14:47:27Z 2004-09-29T14:47:27Z

i use my midflow morning piss for my compost as an activator...maybe using it in winter more than summer...do this about once a month and its fantastic! but then i use urine for other theropy as well! its great. as to blood, and in particular menstrual blood, fantastic... really cool to hear you all talk about it! blood is great to use and id use it in my compost! as for dilutions or other uses on plant for ritual i think thats brilliant. ive used blood in ritual many times and for plants it can be great. also heaps of mates do this and no problems so far! we all get a wee(no pun intended) bit over concerned about bodily fluids or not so fluid stuff sometimes. agree health risks are not so high, unless there twenty people in the house putting it all on the one begonia in the window box!

dræyk 2004-09-29T14:47:27Z $item.owner.firstName http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#27747e6d-3a0a-4a8c-87d7-16ad3c6dec75 2004-09-13T23:04:33Z 2004-09-13T23:04:33Z

Yup! We used to put lime in the outhouse in Homer (as well as sawdust). I didn't read through all the threads before I posted in this one, I'm on it. Urine is TOTALLY organic. But SHOULD it be used as fertilizer? Rich in nitrogen or not. That's what I meant by "define organic". Same thing w/menstrual blood. Rich in nutrients, all natural, organic. As I said earlier, "whatever the absence of air born pathogens or the finite life of blood born disease", I was just wondering if it SHOULD be used for fertilier. After learning several people I know actually do this, I recanted. Party on fellow organic growers!! Lastly, Gayle - I've percieved there is a correlation between finding it gross to handle my menstrual blood, and my general attitude towards my moon cycle (or womanhood, or what have you) - in your post and in several others. I totally embrace my feminity, womanhood, moon cycle, female power, and sisters. But I still think it's gross. Perhaps instead of discussing the hygienic nature of this practice, we should focus on the philosophy of it?? It seems to me like these are two seperate issues: do you agree? (Peace and Love!!!)

$item.owner.firstName 2004-09-13T23:04:33Z gayle http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#f5d5f38c-9f8d-4925-88e0-3df73a411f03 2004-09-13T22:43:19Z 2004-09-13T22:43:19Z

As has been discussed on several threads here, urine is excellent fertilizer, rich in both nitrogen and potassium, and, due to the nitrogen content, speeds up the decomposition of compost. What is not "organic" about it? Urine comes out of the body sterile, unless there is a bladder/urinary track infection. The conversion of urine to yucky-smelling ammonia can be prevented by neutralizing it with lime (dolomite powder). (Do not apply it to plants directly unless you neutralize it first and dilute it with water like 10/1.) As for menstrual blood, it is no less hygienic than other blood, straight out of the body. Any blood can be a medium for bacterial growth once out of the body, but much less so when spread around than concentrated, and it decomposes rapidly. Any blood can carry blood-borne infections, but to my knowledge none of these infections survive decomposition. The negative reactions to =menstrual blood in particular= (as opposed to blood in general) have more to do with negative attitudes toward Moontime itself than to any practical hygienic consideration.

gayle 2004-09-13T22:43:19Z Jandari http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#c4620817-973b-4e4c-92c8-6637f188d046 2004-09-13T21:03:02Z 2004-09-13T21:03:02Z

urine is a really good fertilizer. rich in nitrogen, i think. i just bought this book called liquid gold, about using urine as fertilizer, but haven't had a chance to really read it yet. http://www.liquidgoldbook.com/

Jandari 2004-09-13T21:03:02Z $item.owner.firstName http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#6af14b5d-72cd-428c-b63e-7b5e7087de2e 2004-09-13T20:48:24Z 2004-09-13T20:48:24Z

Somebody was urinating on their compost??? I think the term "Organic" should be defined. I just joined this tribe so maybe its not my place... but it sounds to me like this is being used a little loosely. (And I would probably be considered a loose woman)

$item.owner.firstName 2004-09-13T20:48:24Z JessGwen http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#99ccc252-1537-4ee5-8386-ec02464c99c8 2004-09-13T20:25:18Z 2004-09-13T20:25:18Z

I think it's interesting that there were many more stong opnions voiced on this subject than urinating in/on your compost. Funny how this is so much more tabu for some people. just a random observation. JG

JessGwen 2004-09-13T20:25:18Z $item.owner.firstName http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#2dd922be-af51-4776-b335-a85dd4ed7cb1 2004-09-13T17:38:17Z 2004-09-13T17:38:17Z

So I talked to my friend in Homer this weekend and she does this to her houseplants. She also read somewhere (can't remember-we were getting shitfaced) about a woman who witnessed the Xunu (sp?) tribe in California running through their cornfields under a full moon. I told her this was the grossest thing I ever heard of and she thinks that's funny. So-Mama Botanica... I see now that people actually do this. Carry on. But I'll give you the same advice I gave her: try not to get it mixed up w/your batches of red wine.

$item.owner.firstName 2004-09-13T17:38:17Z Mama Botanica http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#511ee13f-83b3-4dac-8e33-81f7b3d0ea2e 2004-09-13T04:35:58Z 2004-09-13T04:35:58Z

I've been doing it for a long time. I don't know what nutrients it provides but it seems to me too good of a thing to waste. I appreciate the spiritual aspect of gifting my blood back to the earth. I feel that's where it belongs. I've been watering a passionflower with the soak water from my cotton pads and it's doing beautifully. Came back from near dead. For those who think it's horrible. Is it horrible when you have to soak dirty clothes to get out stains? I doubt anyone is letting a bucket of blood (who bleeds that much anyway?!!) sit around. If you use cloth pads then you pretty much have to soak them to get them clean. If you don't use cloth then what do you use? Keep that dioxin bleached rayon fiber stuff away from tender special places! That is more likely a greater health hazard than feeding plants your body fluids! (I love the image of some man masturbating onto his soil to improve fertility - makes me laugh just thinking of it!) Have to admit I really enjoyed shitting in a bucket at an alternative building conference recently to add to their humanure system (there's a great book on the subject that documents health hazards and environmental benefits of that - The Humanure Handbook). Also have a friend who uses the bucket system for he and his wife - they are very particular about who uses it - if you've been traveling you have to use the commode! I've been to many a non-industrial country and seem the results of poor sanitation. There's a big difference between shitting in your food and water sources and using human waste (menstrual blood and other) as nutrient sources. When properly handled I've not seen anything bad come of it yet. The key is giving it enough time to compost before you do anything with it.

Mama Botanica 2004-09-13T04:35:58Z $item.owner.firstName http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#2aee653b-f3d2-4fa6-a7a4-bbda6ed5dbde 2004-09-08T18:17:24Z 2004-09-08T18:17:24Z

im w/freckly fawn on this one. ive never in my life heard of menstrual blood as fertilizer. in alaska my neighbors composted their solid human waste and used it to fertilize the flower garden downslope from the vegie garden. their system was a cool process that took years to get going properly, although i don't know too much about it. i do know that they didn't fertilize anything they were going to eat w/it. i dont think that's you're intention - to fertilize your food w/it, sounds like you're going to do houseplants and stuff. that's interesting about the navajo/apache natives using their menstrual blood in construction. i find it hard to believe. i personally know nothing about that culture. in souix/chippewa/tlingit/haida tribes a woman's moon cycle was quite the event, that involved a lot of gender-segregation, solitude and spirituality. i've never heard of any ritual in which the menstrual blood was actually handled or used for any utilitarian purpose. im in civil engineering and in most places in the lower 48 outhouses are illegal per zoning. for good reason. human fluids/wastes have to be contained and treated. and in regards to menstrual blood, whatever the absense of air born pathogens or the finite life of blood born diseas, in my mind- it should just be discarded hygenically. peace and love !!!

$item.owner.firstName 2004-09-08T18:17:24Z Jandari http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#2fbf0190-ad53-4174-bc2a-db4451af3f6a 2004-09-08T17:25:09Z 2004-09-08T17:25:09Z

well i just got my period today so i will be trying this out, i will let you guys know what happens.

Jandari 2004-09-08T17:25:09Z Talisunbrow http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#644be5e9-6f6d-4943-a659-19206fbe75e3 2004-09-08T15:10:32Z 2004-09-08T15:10:32Z

reply to you spiral mama, in some cultures out west the bricks of the adobe were made with mud ,water and menstral blood, and these lodges were for women only, and my girl friend used her blood and it was free and organic fertilizer, it was proceesed by a plant and made food for the yeilder, and give and take relationship, i still have the seeds from the line of plants i have growing for years using the same process, they are hardy healthy and tasty, also there is apersonal connection to the whole process, its non invasive completely organic,no karma...other words , no trips to lowes, wallmart or any other fertilizer distributers, no blood from slaughter houses or supporting corporate dissention in one more aspect of our lives so we seem like flakes when we profess our lifestyles that can be debunked and dissolusioned by anyone with knowledge of how the industry touches us all with its evil subjectations, phew....what i am tring to say gardening is a personal thing and it's best to keep the trail to your food narrow and from point a to point b kitchen to garden and back.

Talisunbrow 2004-09-08T15:10:32Z $item.owner.firstName http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#5f9f1d17-b52a-426e-809a-f51badf2b825 2004-09-01T05:47:46Z 2004-09-01T05:47:46Z

As a healthcare worker I have a healthy (no pun intended) respect for body fluids, blood and otherwise. Blood borne pathogens have a finite life outside of the body. HIV for instance lives for a very short time and is not high in menstrual blood. Hepatitis a much more prevalent and bigger concern in hospitals and lives up to 30 hours on surfaces but breaks down with heat, sunlight, not to mention what several meters of soil could filter out. So for those few people who chose to sneeze all over Muni, spit on the ground, shit in our water, let dogs and cats, birds and all other living creatures excrete when and where they please AND broadcast diluted menstrual blood into their gardens, GO FOR IT! In my humble opinion, risks are low for transmission of blood borne disease. And what doesn't kill ya makes you stronger, right?

$item.owner.firstName 2004-09-01T05:47:46Z freckly http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#b7814208-af48-4d4d-8271-c24d9693e88d 2004-09-01T03:27:39Z 2004-09-01T03:27:39Z

indeed, an aversion to a stranger's menstrual blood relates to many issues besides gardening.. like health. :) bloody solutions in buckets sitting around waiting to be baked are a health risk. I don't care what precautions people think they are taking at certain points! Body fluids accumulating in my neighbors' garage is not something i would want around my children or pets. Forget the ground water contamination issue, though it is a real one. We have our well tested often, and often find contamination from dangerous organisms from aerobic septic systems that aren't maintained. There are many infections diseases borne by human body fluids. My aversion is to other people's body fluids because of possible health risks, not to women or men or sexuality, for the record, as i feel has been insinuated. :) I don't use blood on my plants at all in any form, not from animals or humans, and i don't put human feces on my plants, nor is it recommended. human sewage must be treated because of health risks to other humans; that's not something i felt or thought or made up. health risks aren't always obvious or known, for example; scientists never dreamed that mad cow disease would manifest as it has or be transferred to humans as it has. (i really didn't think i would have to explain my feelings about this...) I find composted manure from herbivores to be very acceptable, given that the animals are healthy. i do not put meat in my compost or dog or cat feces or any other body fluid from humans or body parts from animals. I wouldn't put sperm on my plants either, and i hope my neighbor isn't masturbating into buckets to dilute and pour on his plants for "life force." i was expecting to be crucified for not being PC about a woman's issue (har har), but so far the responses have been very moderate. i didn't post for days because i was afraid to say what i thought; i repressed my feelings for fear of what women would say to me! now that's interesting...but a topic for another tribe eh. i'm glad this topic is being discussed, and i'm glad i am free to give my opinion on it. :) i had no idea people could or would be doing this!

freckly 2004-09-01T03:27:39Z $item.owner.firstName http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#7c35d80f-c8c3-4e76-a6db-e3bf833c3138 2004-08-31T22:55:47Z 2004-08-31T22:55:47Z

I have been using diluted moon time blood and pouring it onto my white sage and other plants I use for either my own rituals or my own medicines. I have only been doing this for about four months but everyone seems pretty happy (even my plants!) One wonders what was done with the straw used to bleed into while in the Red Tent (another tribe...) or other indiginous moon lodge locations... Happy Earth connection everyone!

$item.owner.firstName 2004-08-31T22:55:47Z Juicy http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#3201140a-60ac-45ed-ac4e-a1cbdaf767f6 2004-08-30T18:06:42Z 2004-08-30T18:06:42Z

I have used it on my house plants for years, just diluted in water once a month! They are all happy, healthy plants..... I have a friend who watered her zucchini plant with it one summer, and won the largest zucchini contest at the fair......

Juicy 2004-08-30T18:06:42Z gayle http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#9352ac29-d077-4286-ba50-45224b031dc5 2004-08-29T20:40:33Z 2004-08-29T20:40:33Z

Most food is grown with no organic fertilizer at all, only chemical NPK fertilizer. I think that a feeling of ickiness and contamination from menstrual blood, rather than power, touches on other issues besides gardening.

gayle 2004-08-29T20:40:33Z Jandari http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#b385c8b9-c0eb-4a58-b310-8a1d405b898a 2004-08-29T17:59:29Z 2004-08-29T17:59:29Z

frecklyfawn, how do you feel about people using manure as fertilizer in their yard? that's cow feces...

Jandari 2004-08-29T17:59:29Z Grandma http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#3e534173-3376-43e1-8cd8-2fde415761b9 2004-08-28T21:22:16Z 2004-08-28T21:22:16Z

Well, I hope that you grow all of your own food, because the amount of human biosludge being applied to food production would probably turn you into an instant anorexic if you knew...and those wastes are from anyone and everyone. And I cannot vouch for the effectiveness of the treatments being applied, either. Heat-dried blood will not have any kind of pathogen left in it, and would be no different from the bonemeal and bloodmeal you buy at the garden shop, except that it would be much closer to you personally and possibly much cleaner. I am also very alert and skeptical about what kinds of potentially dangerous materials I apply to my gardens, but when they are clean and pathogen-free, I wouldn't let squeamishness (no offense intended) rob me of a good thing and make me treat a powerful physical/spiritual resource like it is something nasty. I would get more upset if my neighbor was spraying chemicals or using various lawn products which will leach into my well. Life happens. Enjoy. :-)

Grandma 2004-08-28T21:22:16Z freckly http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#55001163-1198-4593-a2d3-65c93a0156aa 2004-08-28T06:11:20Z 2004-08-28T06:11:20Z

i would not be happy if my neighbors were putting out body fluids near my home, baked or otherwise. there are rules for disposal of things like human sewage and blood and such. i have a well, right outside my house, from which i drink and bathe.. and i would hope that this kind of practice is VERY VERY VERY far away from me. as a woman, i find it very... objectionable. i am sensitive and know what people are trying to do, but.. it's just... asking too much, in my opinion. i understand this is my opinion.. and women are free to just.. broadcast their menstrual blood on their yards... lordy... we don't allow human or cat or dog feces in our compost. this is the same family of ickiness to me.

freckly 2004-08-28T06:11:20Z Jandari http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#a2565999-7b9b-4d55-a5df-1e21dc8d4e2c 2004-08-27T19:37:53Z 2004-08-27T19:37:53Z

would it be unhygenic to bake the blood in the oven to dry it out? or does the heat kill all the bacteria?

Jandari 2004-08-27T19:37:53Z LA http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#b5977e86-4320-406a-a4f6-9f1922f4e4b4 2004-08-27T18:36:35Z 2004-08-27T18:36:35Z

Dilution won't do anything to mitigate the health risks: drying or composting are the only means I've seen that would have any impact. Dilution would simply spread any problem(s) over a larger area! -LA

LA 2004-08-27T18:36:35Z Jandari http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#93714f30-d69b-4569-8dfe-1028b3ef847f 2004-08-27T18:00:11Z 2004-08-27T18:00:11Z

well i was thinking of diluting the blood first before applying them to plants. i don't know if that would decrease the risk or not. i live with 4 guys, so i'm not sure if they'd be too happy about me baking my blood in the oven! :P thanks for all the info, this is all very helpful!

Jandari 2004-08-27T18:00:11Z LA http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#58586f08-9819-43fd-ae7e-7ecdc30ed817 2004-08-27T17:07:01Z 2004-08-27T17:07:01Z

I would guess that menstrual blood would have the same / very similar properties as blood meal. The main benefit I have found in my research is nitrogen, and potential boosting of compost piles. (see http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/envirohort/factsheets2/fertilizer/jan89pr6.html by the Virginia Tech Coop Extension for more detail) A BIG CONCERN I would have in using any blood-based products is the possibility of contamination of plants (particularly any that you would expect to use as food and/or decoration) with any potential blood-borne agents. As noted on http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/fertilizer1804.cfm there are (and likely will continue to be) concerns with BSE and other blood/tissue contaminants. Do keep in mind that blood contaminants are not simply diseases like BSE, etc. -- there are other components of one's blood that can make you or others ill if handled improperly and/or ingested -- largely due to what may grow/culture in the blood. Not to mention any unwelcome pests that may be drawn to "raw" blood in your garden. Note: blood meal is dried largely for better/easier packaging and transport but also because a lot of risks are eliminated with the water. Most "bad things" need moisture to grow. So, I would suggest closely considering what you would be fertilizing with your menses, as I'm guessing you're not going to be drying them out in your oven before applying them to your plants. Perhaps a separate compost pile that you use for non-food / not-in-the-house plants would be a good choice, as I'm guessing that composting the blood (much as you would with manure) may decrease or eliminate the blood-specific risks. For example, I recall reading in Sage Woman [ http://www.sagewoman.com ] some time ago about a woman's ritual garden: she composted her menses and used them to fertilize the herbs etc she later used in ritual. I thought that was a =very= powerful application! To sum up: if you're going to apply a blood product to any plants you expect to eat/handle often, dry out or compost the blood first to reduce/eliminate the health risks. Please keep us posted on what you choose to do! -LA

LA 2004-08-27T17:07:01Z Tom http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#fdce593e-b5a1-44f1-b0a5-6c3ebf264471 2004-08-26T23:00:31Z 2004-08-26T23:00:31Z

I don't know the nutritive difference between human menstrual and slaughterhouse (cow, pig, chicken, etc) blood but blood meal is used by some as a high nitrogen fertilizer.

Tom 2004-08-26T23:00:31Z Dj http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#d7cd17cf-9a54-4b57-b561-68eba93b4fc6 2004-08-26T20:32:25Z 2004-08-26T20:32:25Z

a woman i know wears those cotton moon pads...then when it is full, she lets it soak in a bucket of water and then pours the menstrual-water on the plants

Dj 2004-08-26T20:32:25Z -robin http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#d76f3011-f354-448b-b555-1e2a5b9fe10a 2004-08-26T19:18:13Z 2004-08-26T19:18:13Z

i know that menstrual blood attracts ants like nothing i've even seen so you might wanna keep that in mind if spreading it on stuff inside or near your people places.

-robin 2004-08-26T19:18:13Z Jandari http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/58a9da21-8393-4f89-9278-61cbafb5eaa2#08f725fc-9a5a-4735-9a46-f6282dbb4505 2004-08-26T18:32:51Z 2004-08-26T18:32:51Z

can you use menstrual blood as fertilizer? how is it applied (directly or diluted?) and how often should it be given to plants? i've read that plants love it, but is there any sort of evidence backing this up? has anyone grown plants that were given menstrual blood vs. no fertilizer side by side to see which one does better? how potent of a fertilizer is it? what exact nutrients does it give to a plant? there seems to be no information on this sort anywhere online.

Jandari 2004-08-26T18:32:51Z