Advertisement
I need an organic way to get rid of ants in the garden. They've taken up their own farming endeavor of Aphids and I've realized that my efforts to get rid of the aphids are futile as long as the ants are still around.
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Sun, September 2, 2007 - 10:40 AMI hate to admit this, but ants are my absolute nemesis. Thankfully, they haven't invaded my garden. Instead they have colonized each and every miniscule entrance into my house instead. (I live in a basement apartment with no reliable seal from the surrounding soil) I have a constant parade of them---sometimes rivers---flowing in and out of these little ant orifi. I refuse to use poison in my home, although in desperation I have put out the Grants ant stakes (which incidentally, they SCOFF at and instantly find detours). They've never so much as been sniffed at. The harshest remedy I've tried was the concentrated orange spray, which had a mediocre temporary effect.
I am desperate for some sort of holistic/organic ant remedy that keeps them out of my house (and away from my garden). Short of moving out and thusly investing loads of money into sealing every crevice in the dumpy apartment I live in (not practical), everything I've tried has failed. I would be ever so grateful if someone had some tips. (though moving is an eventuality sadly)
By the way, cinnamon, cayenne pepper, salt, vinegar, essential oils of various kinds, glue (to seal crevices), and chinese chalk have not been effective deterrents here, (these ants are seriously street smart) just in case those worked for you. -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Sun, September 2, 2007 - 11:21 AMI had a major ant/aphid infestation in the purple hull peas. I kept coffee grounds and crushed egg shells on the surface around the plants and that kept the ants at bay long enough for the predators to move in. My favorite predator turned out to be a little green catepillar that is the larva of the hover fly. So when you see those little "sweat bees" swarming around your plants, it will soon be open season on the aphids.
-
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Mon, September 3, 2007 - 3:34 PMok, so I tried something, I'm not so sure how "organic" it is, but we'll see if it works. My main issues with the ants and aphids are on my corn. So I used Tanglefoot www.tanglefoot.com/products/barrier.htm and put it around the lower stem of the stalks and then sprayed the aphids with insecticidal soap. Keep your fingers crossed.
Oh and for anyone that uses it, it's stickier than tree sap and water proof. After applying it I had it ALL OVER my arms. The most effective way to get it off was to rub it with vegetable oil (I only have olive oil in my house) and then use dishwashing liquid to wash it all away. -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Tue, September 4, 2007 - 10:26 PMtwo things:
1, diatomaceous earth works on most ants. I found one bit online that says pharaoh ant hills will split and become two hills if you use diatomaceous earth, so check to see if they are pharaoh ants before using this. It's a finely ground powder made from shells, from what I can remember. The ants (and other critters) crawl over it and scrape themselves dead. Good for use in kitchen.
2, boric acid and something to attract the ants. They take it back to the hill and it kills them. boric acid has some properties best left away from pets and children. When using stuff like this, I have made make-shift safety containers with the lid taped on securely. Cutting holes in the sides and placing the toxic stuff in there will keep it away from kids and pets. Peanut butter is sticky enough that you can smear it on the inside, and sprinkle the boric acid on it.
Both are accepted by organic standards.
Hope this helps. -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Wed, September 5, 2007 - 7:06 AMOn an interesting related note, Boric acid is actually the active ingredient in several commercial chemical solutions. I'm not sure how organic it qualifies as but it's a substance that occurs easily in nature so it is probably the best compromise you'll find while still trying to be true to organic gardening. It is also highly effective against many other insects.
Just be careful in using it to maintain a balance between beneficial and irritating insects. You'll need the pollinators and such later.
-
Oh yeah
Wed, September 5, 2007 - 7:10 AMOh and diatomaceous earth is awesome against soft bellied critters like slugs, snails, grubs and other soil based larvae. Mix a little into the soil and sprinkle a little on the surface around a young plant and you'll save a lot of grief from the nasty stuff crawling up and eating your plants.
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Wed, September 5, 2007 - 8:17 AMI've used boric acid before, but we have raccoons and cats and squirrels in the neighborhood and I have two dogs that would make short order of any container that had food in it so I won't be using that. But thanks on the diatomaceous earth -
-
Unsu...
Re: Ants and Aphids
Fri, September 21, 2007 - 10:02 PMdiatomaceous earth is the fossilized remains of a kind of algae.....definitely works....not the most renewable resource i've heard...not sure on that....too spendy for me anyway
respect ants too much to mess with em really, though never been much a problem...keep in mind they work your soil a bit....if you have a major issue w/ em, find their food source and eliminate it....dead plant matter > compost it....aphids > insecticidal soap
the fire ants are comin up from the south...ever hear someone say bring on global warming, i could stand a few more degrees....tell them to go stick their head in one of those ant hills lol -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 6:44 AMActually no it is not algae. It is a form of plankton called Diatoms. Known to many biologists as marine snowflakes.
They are a form of microscopic marine life which uses silicon in their exoskeletons and because they have very complex compound fractal patterns to their skeletons they produce very coarse skeletons which do not decay normally and can be harvested for a wide variety of uses.
They are very interesting to look at under a microscope by the way, even just their skeletal remains have an almost infinite variety of beautiful sparkling shapes.
Diatomaceous earth is perhaps one of the MOST renewable resources on the planet as they are still around and still doing their best to help balance the marine ecology. In fact lack of enough of them is a big part of what causes some of the dead zones in the gulf of Mexico.
I agree about generally leaving ants alone though.
As for global warming and fools who think it sounds not so bad, tell them about the fact that an average temperature increase of roughly 5 degrees total from the "norm" will destroy the ability of most of the worlds food crops to properly pollinate. We are already at about 2.5 degree average, or about halfway there. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Ants and Aphids
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 12:23 PMyou're absolutely right about the dead zones! factcheck though:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
di·a·tom /ˈdaɪətəm -ˌtɒm/ Pronunciation Key - [dahy-uh-tuhm -tom]
–noun - any of numerous microscopic, unicellular, marine or freshwater algae of the phylum Chrysophyta, having cell walls containing silica.
"Plankton are any drifting organism that inhabits the water column of oceans, seas, and bodies of fresh water. It is a description of life-style rather than a genetic classification." Wiki
"Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae." Wicki -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 12:27 PMfunny that something called "earth" comes from the sea... S'pose it's all mixed together anyway. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Ants and Aphids
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 12:51 PMit's actually a petrified deposit around former lakebeds/seafloor....wiki..."chalk-like sedimentary rock that is easily crumbled into a fine white to off-white powder."
"Eventually, all things merge into one...and a river runs through it...." Norman Maclean, River Runs Through It
"The water cycle and the life cycle are one." J. Cousteau
-
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Fri, October 5, 2007 - 12:45 AMOkay, perhaps I should have said it is not true algae, though some do consider it algae. Different scientific camps.
On the "fact check", I would be real careful about citing wikipedia as being the end all definition on anything scientific. It frequently has errors and has been proven repeatedly to show the editorial bias of the people who choose what articles to accept or delete. There have been some glaring errors in a number of articles in the past.
However, yes, plankton is more of a description of a mode of living, often only during certain life stages. I use the term as a general description only.
There is also substantial debate about Diatoms being considered algae or more properly belonging to another branch of the plant kingdom. Anyway, that's rather too much splitting hairs for the purposes we are discussing.
The fossil deposits are still just billions of little skeletons, just the same as chalk and limestone are the skeletons of billions of other marine creatures, only they are based on calcium and carbon vs silicon.
In either case they mine the deposits and grind them up. Both are technically renewable in the long term, a very long term.
All are directly a part of the entire balancing act for sea life and the chemistry of the oceans and are all suffering from terrible fluctuations directly caused by run off pollution, mostly from lawns, and the fundamental fact that there are too many people on the planet consuming too much energy and other resources, which is why the worse die off zone is at the outflow of the Mississippi river which drains the pollutants from a large percentage of the midwest and eastern US watershed. China also has a really bad one building up. India is the cause of similar problems too.
These marine life forms are also a big part of the balancing mechanisms that regulate conditions for all life on the planet, such as uptake of greenhouse gasses like CO2, which are bound up with calcium in the shells that produce chalk and limestone.
In the short term though it will take proper harvesting methods and technologies, and their application on any significant scale will be a very important part of how we manage human impact on the planet. There are a number of ecotechnologists, such as myself or James Lovelock, (father of the Gaia theory and many other useful concepts), who believe that this form of geoengineering is key to the long term survival of humanity and repairing the damage done to the planet.
Anyway I hope you don't take my expansion on the discussion as any form of personal attack since we are obvious both of very similar inclination in terms of not being just another polluting consumer idiot. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Ants and Aphids
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 2:42 PMThank you for that rundown. 8)
You are obviously far more educated on this subject than I....wiki USUALLY serves my purposes, but touche.....Seems like the renewability issue would be a pretty hard scheme to map out, what with the geologic time frame and so many other anthropogenic factors affecting plankton/algae today....when I was in alaska, I heard that 1 tablespoon of oil can broadcast over acres of water decimating this life in the top inch or so (i was around valdez in case you're wondering)....can you provide evidence for a claim like that?
lol....ants & aphids....just realized....hehe...i digress....this should have been its own thread methinx -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Ants and Aphids
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 4:11 PMI have some miniture roses on my porch. As soon as they started blooming (maybe sooner) the aphids appeared. Then the ants discovered this new foodsource, and invaded to feed off the aphids. For a few weeks I had creamy white blossoms, speckled all over with little black ants. Then a swarm of young birds came by and had a good go at picking off the ants.
In the end I trimmed the thing, but it was a nice visual on the topic of eat or be eaten...
much love
Lola B.
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Ants and Aphids
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 6:39 PMYou're quite welcome.
No need for the touche', it wasn't a sparring situation. I've just had a little more time on the subject. I lived in Alaska for a while too by the way.
The oil contamination you mention is about right on land, and even worse in water, where it takes about 1 drop to contaminate about 1000 gallons. It may seem ridiculously high to some people but they are not factoring in the kill rates for weeks and months later when the stuff spreads out to where you can't see it easily but it is still there killing things.
I have seen a number of the post Valdez incident studies which confirm such figures.
You're right about the sustainability issues, it is a real tangled mess when you start to look at all the things that society is doing wrong, yet probably 90% of it could actually change very easily with just a bit of education and people waking up to how much they are being manipulated by the consumer marketing industry.
Even how they deal with their gardens and ants is largely based on what they have been exposed to via mass media sources, though some are lucky to have been exposed to other alternatives.
So somehow, we have to wake these people up.
-
-
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 5:08 PMI wouldn't ever count on wikipedia or a general dictionary for a real scientific fact check. I'm not putting you down, it's just that those are really unreliable sources. Check a scientific, scholarly source.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Ants and Aphids
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 10:06 PMblast off aphids from underneath with a strong jet of water. since they don't move much, and are placed there by the ants, this usually rids plants of high concentrations of them. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Ants and Aphids
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 11:41 PM*tips hat to thorgrim*
have to second chili's advice as the first step before spraying anything else....anyone else just find the fact ants "farm" the aphids really cool? -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids -- Hymenopterans in general
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 5:40 AMThanks, and let me pass that along to Chili too. She always gives good advice.
Personally I find all of the hive creatures of the order Hymenoptera fascinating. Their complex social structures and instinctive behaviors as well as their learned behaviors and ways of communicating are amazing. Nothing puts nature and the world into clearer perspective than watching a hive at work and coming to appreciate the elegant subtleties of their way of living.
The thousands of sub varieties in each of the species of ants, bees, wasps, etc and their adaptations to their niche roles in the eco systems and different body variations and food preferences are amazing as well.
The symbiotic relationships often developed by these creatures with their sources of food is both scientifically fascinating as well as morally and ethically inspirational.
Then there are the medical uses of ants, and other aspects of them in a survival situation, such as honeypot ants or using ants for emergency sutures.
Also the special ailments predators and diseases that have adapted in relation to members of this order is amazing in itself. There is even a fungus called cordyceps that affects their behaviors and makes them act completely differently than normal, basically hijacking the entire creature into a zombie that helps to spread it's spores (Shades of xcom, the xfiles, and many other tales/films/games), a fact which has lead to some very interesting studies of similar effects in other species such as humans. Of course the whole field of mycological science is quite fascinating and has great potential for addressing many environmental issues.
Hymenopterans and a lot of other insects have been a strong inspiration in a lot of the ethical, scientific and moral writings throughout history as well as being the inspiration for a lot of fiction such as SciFi and Horror. Films like "Them", Starship Troopers (which is lame compared to the book) and Aliens being good examples.
Charlton Heston made a great film which I consider a must see classic (available at most libraries): "The Naked Jungle" An owner of a coffee plantation in Brazil's jungle fights an army of warrior ants on the move covering several square miles of ground and eating everything in their path (the Marabunta). Even a non-bug interested person would have to admit the film is a masterpiece.
I strongly recomend the game, SIM Ant, by Maxis, the folks who did sim city and such. It has some excellent material in it's documentation, both the internal and the hard copy docs, and you can download it for free on the net and the manual which is worth reading by itself can be found at: www.the-underdogs.info/games/...t-m.zip
By the way, the wikipedia for ants is actually pretty good and has nice pictures of different types. In fact I would say it is wiki at it's best.
-
-
Re: Ants and Aphids -- Hymenopterans in general
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 5:10 PMthats a great movie we watched it in entomology!
-
-
-
Re: Ants and Aphids - cure for aphids
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 5:46 AMOkay, so I went on a ramble.... :-)
Unless they are really getting out of hand I generally leave aphids alone as they are a prime food for ladybugs, which is also a great way to control them. Buy a quart of live ladybugs and turn them loose in your yard.
Anyway, a really good cure for aphids and many other smaller nuisances in the garden is basic agricultural soap solution you can make yourself very cheaply.
1 TBsp cooking oil
1 TBsp dish soap (dawn or other oil cleanup oriented soap recomended but not necessary)
1 gallon of room temp or warmer water.
Combine them all, shake well, and then put in a sprayer of choice and it will get rid of mites, aphids, many scale insects, young stink bugs, etc. and it is environmentally safe and non-toxic even if you spray it on things you will eat soon. Because it works by clogging their breathing pores, it does not harm higher life forms that may feed on them and does not represent any bioaccumulative toxicity hazard.
You can add garlic oil or red pepper oil to it too which helps with a number of pests. -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids - cure for aphids
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 9:05 PMThe cordyceps fungi “attack” on ants is filmed in amazing detail in slow motion on the BBC series Planet Earth. It was fascinating to watch. If you haven’t seen this incredible documentary I highly suggest it. Available on Netflix.
And if you are looking for a beneficial insect provider for ladybugs, here in Arizona you can try www.arbico-organics.com.
They are a reputable supplier (29 years in business) of these wonderful bio friends. They also have other products and they ship far and wide. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Ants and Aphids - cure for aphids
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 11:47 PMjust stay away from those asian lady beetles...grrr
never bought beneficials myself...feel like if i dont have em to begin w/, they prolly arent gonna hang around....
think habitat! bunchgrasses! -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids - cure for aphids
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 5:15 AMBuying beneficials has the benefit of giving you good healthy stock which can fight back against invasives a little more effectively.
Buidling habitat is good but if you have an imbalanced eco system, creating new habitat without populating it creates a vacuum that will be filled by what ever gets to it first and too often that is the invasives. -
-
Re: Ants and Aphids - cure for aphids
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 5:16 PMThose "beneficial" lady bugs you can buy are usually invasive Japanese ones, like he was saying above. Some entrepreneur entomologists have started raising native ones to sell which is awesome. In some places it's unusual to find a native ladybug. I mean what's the point in using a beneficial if it's going to harm native populations?
-
-
-
-
-
