Tribe.net. Local Connections Tom http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#c4b3e5f4-dd34-4396-a49c-82c17cf59c73 2009-06-04T06:12:44Z 2009-06-04T06:12:44Z

On a related note I discovered "professional" potting soil this year at a big box home store, it was tucked away from the brand name kinds that are at least twice the price. It was about $4 for 2 cubic feet bag and was composed of compost, peat moss, sand, soil and perlite. No fertilizers, no wetting agents or other things i don't want my plants growing in. I use it as a base for different container plant mixtures (flowering plants, edibles, succulents) adding my own mix of fertilizer, home made compost and additional perlite.

Tom 2009-06-04T06:12:44Z Jeau ۞ http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#d08107e0-699d-40b7-aa85-ce8a1faf9687 2009-05-20T16:05:21Z 2009-05-20T16:05:21Z

Thanks for the well wishes Linsey. Sounds like you've got similar soil and aridity, although your soil is probably more acid where mine is alkaline. I've never been to Oregon, one of these days I will get there! Good luck with your gardening endeavors too!

Jeau ۞ 2009-05-20T16:05:21Z Marial http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#490cb899-e290-4def-93e7-472d59a55a7b 2009-05-20T13:50:27Z 2009-05-20T13:50:27Z

Even in fertile southwestern Oregon we have icky spots, my own property being all rocks and clay to the point where it takes half a day to dig a hole by way of prying all the rocks out. We are building up raised beds with trucked soil and compost as well. I ask friends and family to dump their leaves with me in the fall, and we are starting to compost sawdust from my husband's cabinet shop. I also helped clean out the barn at the local humane society and scored a lot of free old hay bales and barn litter - score! We are working on transforming our rocks and weeds into a working farm by way of building up raised beds and greenhouses bit by bit. I am very excited about our vegetable garden this year, we laid out cardboard in the fall on which we have been dumping leaves, grass clippings, hay, and sawdust, with leftover compost/fertilizer from building beds. Yesterday I forked it into layered rows with leaves on the bottom, compost on top, and grass clippings and hay mixed in the middle (it rots beautifully with compost on top). We will put a little soil/compost on top today and plant! I can't wait. The paths between the rows are hay.

Marial 2009-05-20T13:50:27Z Linsey http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#1c2b5cde-6027-4bb7-b8ad-96763c230a91 2009-05-18T20:33:00Z 2009-05-18T20:33:00Z

I used to live in central Oregon, which is about as different from western Oregon as one could imagine. We had almost no orgainic matter in our soil, and what was there is pretty much just broken down pine needles. It's high desert, with, sandy, ashy soil, and horribly dry, cold winters. We brought in dump truck loads of cheap compost from soil/gravel places, and now (admittedly almost ten years later) My parents have one of the nicest flower gardens I've ever seen. The entire process would be fast forwarded in pots though. Good luck with your tomatoes, I'm sure they'll do great.

Linsey 2009-05-18T20:33:00Z lorenzo http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#04d3a160-a631-4e35-967e-744d2f9aff37 2009-05-15T16:39:41Z 2009-05-15T16:39:41Z

container gardening is the best way to go to save labor. my best garden required a couple of half days of digging with picks, and replacing the dirt with well composted steer manure and good dirt. we had great tomatos! but one of the problems with larger tomatoes in tucson and probably any hot lands is that the heat can make them split. .

lorenzo 2009-05-15T16:39:41Z Freyamorganna http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#a534a443-8f74-4bd2-b9bc-b89d5acc0ec2 2009-05-15T16:33:56Z 2009-05-15T16:33:56Z

Hi. Yeah Caliche is a pain unless you are into ceramics of course. I add compost to everything all year long. And break up the soil often or it gets so hard. -Freya

Freyamorganna 2009-05-15T16:33:56Z lorenzo http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#9666d16c-7003-4bf7-bb54-c806087bc147 2009-05-15T16:09:09Z 2009-05-15T16:09:09Z

Incredible how there are three people from Tucson in this tribe. . .hi neighbors! I have had great luck with cherry tomatoes, but spotty luck with larger tomatos. It takes so much to build the soil so that there is organic content but it can be done. It's the caliche!

lorenzo 2009-05-15T16:09:09Z Jeau ۞ http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#99616106-3d5e-4a8a-84e2-56585ff35671 2009-05-15T13:52:39Z 2009-05-15T13:52:39Z

Hi Marial and Linsey--I notice you are both from Oregon, thus you have this thing called "topsoil." Lucky you!!! I've got clay and rocks. And as far as people getting rid of yard debris, I wish we had a treasure trove such as that! Perhaps I will have to come and visit you guys, with a big ole pickup truck! :) Me, worry too much? Yeah, I guess I do...but that Web site I quoted earlier had me quite alarmed, especially since I had just bought exactly what she said NOT to use. But thank you for your reassurances Marial, it sounds like you certainly speak from experience. I did manage to grab a few trash cans full of floodplain soil (really mostly sandy silt) before I moved up into the rocks, and I will pick up some Perlite this weekend. I'll keep you all posted on how it goes! It's fun to learn all this, and I'll try to stop losing sleep over it...

Jeau ۞ 2009-05-15T13:52:39Z Marial http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#aa51defc-95ae-4d3f-8b47-0bd7e536613a 2009-05-15T13:33:01Z 2009-05-15T13:33:01Z

I grow and sell heirlooms, and I have to tell you, tomatoes are tomatoes and they are tougher than we often give them credit for. We forget also in trying to come up with the right mix of soil that it is after all just dirt, which has been around and thriving much longer than we have. Methinks you may be worrying too much. If you dig up some basic topsoil from your yard and mix it in with the stuff you bought and some compost and perlite like Wil said, and give your maters plenty of water, they should be happy and fruitful.

Marial 2009-05-15T13:33:01Z Linsey http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#af684f32-7977-40c3-96a4-7e624571cf1e 2009-05-14T19:24:02Z 2009-05-14T19:24:02Z

If you have a car and sturdy trash bags, you can go to your local soil/compost/gravel/sand/etc place and pick up a couple of garbage bags full of specific potting soil. You know, the kind of place where you can drop off yard debree, and pick up steer manure, top soil or other kinds of soil in bulk. My boyfriend and I did this recently. We got about the equivalent of eight bags you would buy at the store for three bucks.

Linsey 2009-05-14T19:24:02Z John http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#190e5f6e-19ee-4e80-8934-50eff02a3be4 2009-05-13T02:33:52Z 2009-05-13T02:33:52Z

There is a Do-It-Yourself site called "Instructables." This site has instructions people have posted on how to do various things. I go there every now and then just to look and to increase my knowledge base. They have several articles on the earthbox. Here are two of them http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-your-own-Earth-Box/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Ultimate-Vegtable-quotEarthBoxquot-For-CHEAP/ Just enter "earthbox" in the search box. Lots of good information. Also on composting and other aspects of gardening. MP & BB John ))0((

John 2009-05-13T02:33:52Z Jeau ۞ http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#049af747-b8ce-4f28-a88d-119b53027262 2009-05-12T02:42:02Z 2009-05-12T02:42:02Z

Thanks for all the detail, it's quite helpful...I, too, am planning to try a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Something is bound to be successful! We have lots of room (we live in the boonies on lots of acres), but the soil here has never been tilled (just trodden by cows), so it's just packed clay and rock. We've brought some floodplain soil, and compost, from our previous place, but obviously only enough for a very small garden. Well, if we stay put, we can expand it each year...

Jeau ۞ 2009-05-12T02:42:02Z Freyamorganna http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#6b1ea9e5-5ab4-4915-b46d-d3dea9bc6ffa 2009-05-11T16:52:46Z 2009-05-11T16:52:46Z

Unfortunately I don't have any Heirloom. I have heard that either having them in a raised bed or container can help with preventing disease. I've been getting mine from Green Things and McConnell's Nursery instead of starting from seeds so I can get the healthiest looking plants since I don't have a lot of room or money. I plant a lot of different kinds of plants together and use the lower growing plants to keep the soil covered. In my raised bed I have a combination of tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, squash and a lot of herbs. The large squash leaves keep the soil very moist underneath. I have the containers at my moms house in Winterhaven and for those I use mulch. When I planted in the ground over at her house I did have a bit of mold and that's why I moved them into containers this year. I'm hoping that with better drainage they won't get moldy and I check them a lot. If you do see any mold you can always peel up the fabric. If you can, try a few different techniques and see which is best for you. Slow drip irrigation is the most effective watering I've found. I'm pretty new to gardening and I am a bit of a try this and that and see what works for me kind of gardener. I also went to Bookmans and found a few books on container gardening, etc. before I tried it. -Freya

Freyamorganna 2009-05-11T16:52:46Z Jeau ۞ http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#f1287eb7-9991-4228-a981-1e5806084156 2009-05-11T16:10:44Z 2009-05-11T16:10:44Z

Thank you Freyamorganna! Can you tell me if they are heirloom tomatoes? The heirlooms are much more susceptible to disease, so if yours are doing fine, I might take the gamble (with a little perlite too, to fluff things up). Also, do you have the soil covered with mulch, or plastic, or anything? I have a roll of very light grey filter fabric that I thought might lower the soil temperature and reduce evaporation, but I'm not sure if it will allow enough air circulation. I don't want to grow a layer of mold! Thanks for your answers, and thanks everyone else, too!

Jeau ۞ 2009-05-11T16:10:44Z Freyamorganna http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#0d669c58-8835-4136-bd0d-61184a00c03d 2009-05-11T15:45:47Z 2009-05-11T15:45:47Z

I live in Tucson and I have a few tomatoes growing in a mix of Organic Miracle Grow Garden Soil, some of our own organic compost and some soil from the yard. Some are in containers and some are in a raised bed and all the plants seem to be doing about the same. I don't have that many, but I haven't noticed a difference between the plants in the beds and in the containers. Hope that helps. -Freya

Freyamorganna 2009-05-11T15:45:47Z Tim http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#2f7c566e-861b-415a-a769-40052f513ea9 2009-05-11T14:11:10Z 2009-05-11T14:11:10Z

I have had tremendous success using these hydroponic tomato systems from Gardiner's Supply: http://www.gardeners.com/Organic-Tomato-Success-Kit/VegetableGardening_TerrificTomatoes,37-852RS,default,cp.html They use a "soiless" mixture of peat moss and vermiculite... And, yes, these systems are great for peppers, eggplant or most anything... I have to admit, my choice was pretty expensive and I really like the Rubbermaid setup outlined in the original post on this thread...

Tim 2009-05-11T14:11:10Z Jeau ۞ http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#5e70c5d0-b66b-442a-9c0b-e94c04d08e4c 2009-05-06T14:37:31Z 2009-05-06T14:37:31Z

This is good advice, but I'm not sure it addresses my primary concern. Let me clarify a bit about Organic Choice's "Garden Soil." This is what they named their product, but it's really meant to AUGMENT one's garden soil...it is not so much soil, as it is compost that has not quite finished composting. I am concerned about whether these microbes are going to be a problem. At www.heirloomtomatoplants.com, for container gardening, it says "Use good potting soil, not garden dirt or top soil. Never put garden dirt in your containers. It's cheaper but will transmit soil borne diseases within the confined space of your containers." She also recommends a 20% volume of perlite. Okay, I realize that this should have answered my question before I asked all of you...but I'm still hoping perhaps this advice is unduly cautious. I just can't afford to buy a couple bags of potting soil for every single container.

Jeau ۞ 2009-05-06T14:37:31Z wil http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#eddacddc-edc6-410e-aac7-ed8455367f1e 2009-05-06T10:16:19Z 2009-05-06T10:16:19Z

I'd buy a bag of perlite and a couple of bags of compost and mix it all together with the soil you bought. It is nice for container soil to be lighter in weight for one thing, and the perlite helps that and helps with water retention. Some folks add vermiculite, but i don't like it as much. Wear a mask when working with the perlite or be careful breathing around it while mixing it in as it is very dusty until wet.

wil 2009-05-06T10:16:19Z John http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#eb577a43-1a6c-4da9-8cac-cc4eb4b7d281 2009-05-06T02:22:57Z 2009-05-06T02:22:57Z

This looks really cool! Two questions, however: Could this be used for other plants such as peppers, squash, etc.? I think it could. Second question: could earth worms be introduced to the soil? Thanks for posting! MP & BB John ))0((

John 2009-05-06T02:22:57Z Jeau ۞ http://greenthumbs.tribe.net/thread/e98ee62b-239b-4a8d-a5cb-ab5b19edde97#15f7f348-661e-44d0-a54b-2a12e2406125 2009-05-05T14:50:40Z 2009-05-05T14:50:40Z

I have planted 28 varieties of heirloom tomatoes, my first adventure with heirlooms and my first gardening effort in many a moon. I will plant many in the garden, but would like to plant some in 21-gallon rubbermaid containers fashioned like an EarthTainer (see here: http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/ ). For my seedlings (in 4-inch pots), I used Organic Choice Potting Mix (by Miracle Gro). For the 21-gallon containers, I was planning to use Organic Choice Garden Soil and my native flood plain soil (fine sandy-silty) in a 1:1 ratio. But now I see the giant red circle/slash on the back that says "NOT FOR CONTAINERS." I had noticed at the store that it said it was for in-ground vegetables, but I really thought that this was just a corporate marketing strategy to force me to buy more of the $8 potting mix (the garden soil was $4), at effectively four times the cost. I ran out of Potting Mix for seed starting, and did a few pots with 2:1 Garden Soil to native soil, and the soil surface molded. They were in clear plastic boxes with lids partially ajar, so the humidity in there was high. The seeds sprouted just fine, and have been relocated into fresh air and sunshine. I also repotted a few of the seedlings that were originally in pure Potting Mix into 1-gallon pots, using a 1:1 ratio of Garden Soil to native soil, with a little bat poop. So far they seem fine. The surface hasn't molded (little humidity here in AZ), and the seedlings are thriving. The question: can I go ahead and use the Garden Soil /native soil combo to do my large container gardening? I can't afford to shell out $8/bag for all the bags of potting mix that I would need for these jumbo containers! But I also don't want to endanger my plants. Needing your experienced advice...thanks!

Jeau ۞ 2009-05-05T14:50:40Z